DCM Training questions??
Thu, 12/08/2010 - 09:22
Hi all,
New to the forum, so I have a couple of questions re DCM. I am at the moment training for two events, 1/2 ironman distance triathlon on sep 11 and DCM in oct, I have never taken part in either distance before. I have a fairly good base as iv completed some tris and a few road races over the last two years. My weekly training at the moment consists of, mon - sea swim and possibly 6-8 k run, tue - cycle 20 - 30 mile, wen run 5-7 mile, thur swim (AM in pool) and cycle 25 - 30 mile, fri OFF (rest) sat long cycle 50 mile, sun long run 15 mile this week as per Marathon training programme.
My Questions are, 1, am I getting enough runs in during the week for marathon base?. 2, My legs are really sore after long run on sun, what can I do to prevent / remedy this?. 3, Is after sep 11 long enough to work on weekly running only training? and last but no least, 4, my short run pace is normally 8min/mile and my long run 9-9.5 min/mile but I have noticed that my short run pace has dropped lately to 9 min/mile, is this anything to do with being used to the long run pace??
Thanks in advance,
MDS
Mon, 16/08/2010 - 09:58
#2
Thanks dsedeath for the great advice. I hadn't planned on any more of a recovery period than a week after the 1/2 , hope its stays fine for me!!. Tried the cold bath to shower yesterday much to the amusement of my wife and kids, even the neighbors must of heard the girly screams. I plan on changing around my training schedule a little to allow a rest day between long bike and long run, hoping this will take the strain off the legs..
"Best of luck, rather you than me, especially since I cant swim" I couldn't swim either until last summer when I took lessons at the local pool, learnt loads and worked on it through the winter, plus had great craic doing so. Id recommend taking lesson to anyone, especially if your willing to have a good laugh at yourself..
One last question, Should I be pacing my long runs at marathon pace or easing off a little and relying on adrenaline on race day to pick the pace up??? I'v read conflicting theories on both..
Thanks again.
Mon, 16/08/2010 - 15:15
#3
I am trying to get under 3:15 in Dublin this year (had 3:18 2 years ago and went out too too fast last year), so what works for me is to try to make sure I can get to the business end of the race in relatively good form, and expect something to drive me on in the last 5-6 miles. So what that boils down to is ensuring that the miles are in the legs at a less than marathon pace. One of the toughest things to get through in a marathon is when the legs are really sore, your stride seems to shorten and you slow down. The more long running you do, the less likely you are to get sore legs and then you only have to worry about hitting the wall/running out of gas. Running out of gas is when all the glycogen is used up and you are running on empty, you can sort that out to some extent by ensuring a good nutrition strategy before and during the race (gels, carbo drnks etc).
So given that, I think it is best not to run at marathon pace, its usually too fast for training runs, it tires you out, hurts the legs and means you need longer to recover and wor to you if you hit the wall during training....you want to prepare the body for one great effort on the day and save it as much as possible up to then. If you do the miles, practice the eating and drinking and 'know' you can go the distance (having prepared in training) then on the day you should control your pace early on (most important!!) and let yourself go as you get into your stride around 10 miles. Beware going out too hard too early else all the prep you had done at a good steady pace will only take you so far before you blow out. Last year I tried to get under 3:15 and started out at around 3:00 pace figuring I could fade and still cross the line unde the target but ended up 5 mins over it and I had run the half marathon in the park in 1:28 so I thought I'd enough to play with but it was an unrealistic pace and I knew it at mile 8.....so lesson is to go out steady and pick up what will be your race pace when you have settled, but it shouldnt be so radically different from what you have alre4ady done in training.
Wed, 25/08/2010 - 15:56
#4
mds - you've set yourself a pretty tough challenge there!
Sore legs is almost certainly as a result of limited running. If I'm reading it correctly your long run is more than the rest of the weeks running put together which means that you're going to find it tough no matter what you do. I know nothing about training for triathlons so can't really comment where you could adapt your training but if you can fit a little more running in you'll find the long runs easier (as well as the marathon - relatively speaking of course).
The advice about running off-road is sound but it's worth noting that the marathon is run on roads and you'll find it that bit harder if all your runs are off-road - probably worth mixing it up.
Finally, mds is absolutely correct about getting in some faster running. It can be worth throwing in a couple of miles in the middle of a session at your target marathon pace. Normally I'd suggest it as part of your long run but given the proportion of your running that this represents you'd probably be better off doing it mid-week.
Good luck!
Tue, 31/08/2010 - 10:01
#5
How is the objective coming along?
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Pretty impressive to knock off a 1/2 Ironman and a marathon within a month of each other. I'll try and give an opinion to each Q.
1 You are doing enough for a marathon base, you are getting a good/serious cardio workout most days and you are including a long run which will gradually increase if you are following an outline marthon plan distance, so in those terms you should be fine.
2 Doing long runs = sore legs. I dont know if there is a good preventative strategy except avoid hard surfaces like road and tarmac etc and run on grass/trails. ITs the pounding of the legs that makes them sore as well as lactic acid, the more you rujn long the easier this soreness will get (one hopes). The main thing to help after the long run is top get plenty of fluid/carbs and maybe something to replace the electrolytes. If you are doing 1/2 Ironman I'm sure you have lots of this kind of stuff. Another important point is to take a cold/ice bath, then back into shower and get the legs warm again, then repeat. The alternate hot and cold has a marked effect.
3 Given the amount of training you are and will have done by Sept 11 you should be just about ok to get up the serious distances (20 mile runs) before tapering down but there is one major caveat here, you are doing a very serious event and it will take a lot of recovery time. I have found that after a marathon I take a month to recover, you dont have that luxury. I dont know how you will be after the 1/2 Ironman but you will definitely need some recovery. In order to complete DCM relatively painlessly, you should have got 2 X 18 and 1 X 20 mile runs at the least.
4 You slowing down is likely to be a combination of two things, slow long running where you have dropped your pace to do mileage leads to your body getting good at running long and slow, so you need to inlcude some fast runs in your weekly training to maintain a good pace else you can drift inot the marathoin shuffle where while you are running it looks more like a brisk walk :) Tough but thats the only way to go, your body adapts to what you put it through, running slow will keep you slow, running fast will speed you up. The other factor is that you are doing a lot of cycling and are likely therefore to have tightened up the muscles in your upper leg (hamstrings, quads etc) which can actually reduce your range of motion/length of your strice and may be slowing you down, there are a whole load of stretching exercises etc to help with that.
Best of luck, rather you than me, especially since I cant swim.